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blooregardo said: PD: Hope my grammar is okay, I'm not good at it.
no problem with your grammar at all!
sorry, in the end it became a bit long. but thanks to the new ideas you brought to this thread, i managed to write different things this time, so im really thankful for you, despite those awfully large comments, you had patience, effort and courage to join in and expose yourself... im rly thankful. i try to see your side, i hope that i keep improving on considering your feelings and experiences, and i hope that you can see new things too with what i say here. no hard feelings~ i think life is long, theres no need to rush, it only scrambles things.
genetic program
You see, we are animals and it's on our genes to, in some point of our lives, procreate. The rules inscribed on our genetic code tells us men to search for a female with maternal instincts and a fertile body (child-bearing hips, feminine facial features and big breasts) And for women: a provider and phisically and mentally capable male. In the course of life, both males and females develop feminine or masculine traits to ensure reproduction. And the reproduction, unconsciously or not, is a big deal, the individual forges in its mind an ideal of the desired self and the desired mate. From this desire comes the graphic representation of idealized bodies. To extend on this: I, as a male, find pleasant to look at a woman with the traits I mentioned before. And seeing a fit male body does not affect me because I know that if I put enough work I could achieve that.
that indeed is a truth. however, the degrees to which people are tied to the desire of mating and the will to have kids arent found in equal doses and types in everyone. its a specter. this must be respected. humans do have free will, and its anti ethical, to say the least, trying to force them to copulate and form a family.
I suppose that the sight of a fit male body is desirable for a woman too, or at least, not disgusting.
its natural that a heterosexual man thinks like that. surprise: not all women thinks the masculine body is appealing. there are completely homosexual women too, and asexual women. i dont know if youve ever read about romantic and sexual orientations, its definitely worth your time, very very clarifying. really, google it!
i adore you bloo, you are a captivating person, but i have to say that this point of view is slightly blurred by sexism. its not your fault, as i insisted, society is sexist, so its natural we become sexists. but "what is this sexism"? "i dont think society is sexist, different genders are biologically different".
ok, people born men and people born women do have biological differences.
v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v the problem with sexism is that it DICTATES HOW A PERSON MUST BE ACCORDING TO THEIR BIOLOGICAL GENDER. ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
a desirable woman, successful in todays society, must be sexually attractive, however she cant be too liberal sexually or will be called a slut (male tears because they cant control the girl as they wanted to, but ok. proceeding.) they must have a slim body, however not too thin, and not too muscular. they must always be neat. they must please the men that look at her, they must be approved by the men surround her or else she will be "disturbing", "not interesting", "not as worthy of respect".
the fact is that women are human beings too. and we dont want to live our lives in submission to men, to dedicate the entire complexity of our existence to pleasing them. no, this is not what we want. ask yourself, your male friends, whoever you talk to: is their sole purpose in life to have sex and raise kids? probably most of them will answer no, that they do have other wishes and dreams in life. many dont even wish to have kids. some dont want to get married. there are a few ones that live an entire life being single. well, tada, women are the same. some of us might see this as really important, but there must be a FREEDOM OF CHOICE. you live your life as you see fit. you understand how wrong it is to oblige people to do something they dont want to? especially when it dictates your entire life: your body, your clothes, your attitudes, your career and life goals, your intimate relationships, your sexual behavior, your position in society. in short, everything.
you and many other men being heterosexual and really craving for a partner doesnt make reality symmetrical to you, as if to every heterosexual man exists a heterosexual woman. its not like this. world isnt black and white like this. its messy. its random. its chaotic. its HUMAN. when you read about the many different kinds of sexual and romantic attraction, im sure you will start realizing this more and more.
you definitely need to understand that women arent a different category of humans that must live by a set of different rules. the individual freedom cant be corrupted. or else, we would live in a dictatorship. (you and i both know the individual freedom isnt respected at all, neither it was ever respected; nowadays we live in the dictatorship of money, of the great capital)
and its this same monetary power that, through the media (be it movies, music industry, fashion, beauty, every fucking enterprise) reinforces sexism, reinforces a fixed role for males and females, a fixed sexual conduct that is the "right one", the "successful one", the "desired", the "normal".
to me, manipulating people's sexualities is one of the most efficient ways of having a dumbfounded, passive, submissive and alienated population. when people dont become the owner of their bodies, of their desires and fantasies, when they dont realize they are in charge, thats when every form of self-diminishing barges in. people dont feel responsible for their lives anymore. they see themselves as victims of circumstances only. they dont feel they can do a thing, they think they depend more on luck than anything else. its wrong. its evil. they think their desires, that are REAL, are wrong and unrealistic. they think that the UNREALISTIC fiction mass media creates is the real, the valid. its not. its an artificial creation based on speculation, on technical enhancement that is nonexistent on the ordinary persons life. people dont interact with each other the same way. they dont see their humanity, their "flaws" and limitations the same way. they have unrealistic expectations of themselves and others. they feel unsafe.
But the current trend of "body acceptance" and the mass-media message of "everyone is special" perverts the mind of the young females telling that it's bad to put work into better themselves and cultivating feminine qualities.
i have to admit i screamed internally a bit when i read this.... XD but its okay, i think i can see your point. to you, being feminine and healthy, taking care of your body, is a super positive and desirable thing. indeed, its not a bad thing at all. it would be good if everyone could maintain a healthy body. h o w e v e r... not every girl wants to live like this. arent there those people that just want to use drugs and dont want to drop it at all, even if it harms them? arent there ppl that wear anything comfortable and dont mind much fashion? arent there a lot of people, especially men (thanks sexism for teaching men they need to be invulnerable and going to the doctor is a sign of weakness and vulnerability) avoid the doctors and their potential chronic diseases develop in much worse ways thanks to the lack of health care? and how about those that dont exercise at all? both women and men can have genetic disorders that greatly affect their regulation of eating, their metabolism, etc. etc. i know this, i studied medicine, i saw this shit in detail, its sad. not to mention other disorders as anxiety and depression that greatly increases the risk of gaining weight, and medication (frequently used in the treatment of these diseases and many others) that make you gain weight. so it isnt as simple as it seems. its great that you are able to maintain a healthy body, but not everyone is in the same pace. some cant find a reason to struggle. some just like their fat lifestyle. morbid obesity is a terrible problem, but what about being just "chubby"? or "fat"?
another thing i studied on med uni, and you can check it for yourself: there are two different kinds of fat. visceral fat and subcutaneous fat. to shorten my comment too, here is the difference: http://www.prevention.com/weight-loss/flat-belly-diet/flat-belly-diet-subcutaneous-and-visceral-belly-fat basically, the fat inside your belly is pro-diabetes, pro-bad cholesterol, pro-inflammatory. here you can see that subcutaneous fat have the opposite effect: anti-diabetes http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25605808http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18460332 and it aids several other patches of metabolism, as mentioned the fat metabolism itself, and if im not wrong it also prevents excessive inflammation, but ill have to search for concrete data later. (im getting sleepy hahah)
so this... "perverted" (:P) defending of appreciating different body types is very healthy. why? people are naturally different. no one has a body identical to the other. some are shorter, some are chubbier, some are more bony, they have different formats, different skin type (in color, patterns, texture, hair), each person has an unique body. learning to see beauty in every human instead of idolizing a specific set of traits is fundamental to each person learning how to love themselves for who they really are. no matter how much you try, if your body structure isnt equal to the media standards, you will never have a body considered "good", "acceptable". is it your fault? are you any less valuable because you dont fit a fucking pattern? thats not right. women are more blatantly victims of that, but men suffer with it, too. think about it... what really is perverted? learning to love and care for yourself and your body? or making people believe they are ugly because they werent born with a specific appearance?
its a cultural thing... the more i get into visual arts, the more i learn theres beauty in everything. in every person, every body, there is poetry.
do you think thats perverted?
Now, lets put for example, a pretty girl in a bikini on an advertising. The message of the image goes from "you could look this cute wearing our clothes" turns into "you will never look this cute you fat b*tch"
you said it with a different argumentative intent, but ill use it to my favor, haha~ basically, those brands dont simply sell a bikini. they are selling a life style. a way of being. they say you need their bikini to be happy and fulfilled. but you also need their cosmetics. their lingeries. their formal clothing. their casual clothing. you need them to be successful and beautiful. also, look at this model. shes so beautiful. her hair is unrealistically flawless. her body is perfect, without a single scratch, irregularity, or fat. she is sensual. shes powerful. you want success? well then you have to be like her.
in other words, you have to transform yourself and become a completely different person in many cases lol.
so what if you dont want to? if you think these are bullshit? well thats great for you, be authentic. i dont think those unrealistic standards are any healthy. our current times are just further proving me right... outrageous level of depression, anxiety, anorexia, bulimia, general unhappiness, stress, disappointment with the career...
In conclussion, the so called "objectification" of the female body is almost always done by women themselves.
n o~ is it true that many women are sexist. most of them. they are taught to be sexist. just as men. however, the ones in the top of this power relation are men. they are the ones with most physical force. they are the ones that more freely exert their sexuality and will. no, they arent free, capitalism isnt freedom and sexism isnt freedom either, even for men who have privileges. they are forced to maintain an appearance of invulnerable, sexual potent man. ill ask my feminist friends for a good text about this in english to more concretely prove this point, ill edit this later, okay?
well this must have been kinda of a bomb... dont feel bad because of it, just being aware sexism exists and its super harmful for everyone is already a great thing! and its the most difficult step. im happy you read all this anyways. thank you.
a representation of an ideal and the appealing to the primal urges of human beings.
as i said before, the shock ideal x reality can be very harmful. ppl often arent able to deal w reality because their expectations and desires are so unrealistic. this causes great suffering. why not cultivate a realistic form of appealing to our urges? a healthy form? well... off i go now. talk to you later! sorry, i could not not be long this time... i really hope, from the deepest part of my heart, that this was any useful to you who read all this. feel free to comment here or pm me.
Debbie
sorry, in the end it became a bit long. but thanks to the new ideas you brought to this thread, i managed to write different things this time, so im really thankful for you, despite those awfully large comments, you had patience, effort and courage to join in and expose yourself... im rly thankful. i try to see your side, i hope that i keep improving on considering your feelings and experiences, and i hope that you can see new things too with what i say here. no hard feelings~ i think life is long, theres no need to rush, it only scrambles things.
that indeed is a truth. however, the degrees to which people are tied to the desire of mating and the will to have kids arent found in equal doses and types in everyone. its a specter. this must be respected. humans do have free will, and its anti ethical, to say the least, trying to force them to copulate and form a family.
its natural that a heterosexual man thinks like that. surprise: not all women thinks the masculine body is appealing. there are completely homosexual women too, and asexual women. i dont know if youve ever read about romantic and sexual orientations, its definitely worth your time, very very clarifying. really, google it!
i adore you bloo, you are a captivating person, but i have to say that this point of view is slightly blurred by sexism. its not your fault, as i insisted, society is sexist, so its natural we become sexists. but "what is this sexism"? "i dont think society is sexist, different genders are biologically different".
ok, people born men and people born women do have biological differences.
v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v
the problem with sexism is that it DICTATES HOW A PERSON MUST BE ACCORDING TO THEIR BIOLOGICAL GENDER.
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
a desirable woman, successful in todays society, must be sexually attractive, however she cant be too liberal sexually or will be called a slut (male tears because they cant control the girl as they wanted to, but ok. proceeding.) they must have a slim body, however not too thin, and not too muscular. they must always be neat. they must please the men that look at her, they must be approved by the men surround her or else she will be "disturbing", "not interesting", "not as worthy of respect".
the fact is that women are human beings too. and we dont want to live our lives in submission to men, to dedicate the entire complexity of our existence to pleasing them. no, this is not what we want. ask yourself, your male friends, whoever you talk to: is their sole purpose in life to have sex and raise kids? probably most of them will answer no, that they do have other wishes and dreams in life. many dont even wish to have kids. some dont want to get married. there are a few ones that live an entire life being single. well, tada, women are the same. some of us might see this as really important, but there must be a FREEDOM OF CHOICE. you live your life as you see fit. you understand how wrong it is to oblige people to do something they dont want to? especially when it dictates your entire life: your body, your clothes, your attitudes, your career and life goals, your intimate relationships, your sexual behavior, your position in society. in short, everything.
you and many other men being heterosexual and really craving for a partner doesnt make reality symmetrical to you, as if to every heterosexual man exists a heterosexual woman. its not like this. world isnt black and white like this. its messy. its random. its chaotic. its HUMAN. when you read about the many different kinds of sexual and romantic attraction, im sure you will start realizing this more and more.
you definitely need to understand that women arent a different category of humans that must live by a set of different rules. the individual freedom cant be corrupted. or else, we would live in a dictatorship. (you and i both know the individual freedom isnt respected at all, neither it was ever respected; nowadays we live in the dictatorship of money, of the great capital)
and its this same monetary power that, through the media (be it movies, music industry, fashion, beauty, every fucking enterprise) reinforces sexism, reinforces a fixed role for males and females, a fixed sexual conduct that is the "right one", the "successful one", the "desired", the "normal".
to me, manipulating people's sexualities is one of the most efficient ways of having a dumbfounded, passive, submissive and alienated population. when people dont become the owner of their bodies, of their desires and fantasies, when they dont realize they are in charge, thats when every form of self-diminishing barges in. people dont feel responsible for their lives anymore. they see themselves as victims of circumstances only. they dont feel they can do a thing, they think they depend more on luck than anything else. its wrong. its evil. they think their desires, that are REAL, are wrong and unrealistic. they think that the UNREALISTIC fiction mass media creates is the real, the valid. its not. its an artificial creation based on speculation, on technical enhancement that is nonexistent on the ordinary persons life. people dont interact with each other the same way. they dont see their humanity, their "flaws" and limitations the same way. they have unrealistic expectations of themselves and others. they feel unsafe.
i have to admit i screamed internally a bit when i read this.... XD but its okay, i think i can see your point. to you, being feminine and healthy, taking care of your body, is a super positive and desirable thing. indeed, its not a bad thing at all. it would be good if everyone could maintain a healthy body. h o w e v e r... not every girl wants to live like this. arent there those people that just want to use drugs and dont want to drop it at all, even if it harms them? arent there ppl that wear anything comfortable and dont mind much fashion? arent there a lot of people, especially men (thanks sexism for teaching men they need to be invulnerable and going to the doctor is a sign of weakness and vulnerability) avoid the doctors and their potential chronic diseases develop in much worse ways thanks to the lack of health care? and how about those that dont exercise at all?
both women and men can have genetic disorders that greatly affect their regulation of eating, their metabolism, etc. etc. i know this, i studied medicine, i saw this shit in detail, its sad. not to mention other disorders as anxiety and depression that greatly increases the risk of gaining weight, and medication (frequently used in the treatment of these diseases and many others) that make you gain weight. so it isnt as simple as it seems. its great that you are able to maintain a healthy body, but not everyone is in the same pace. some cant find a reason to struggle. some just like their fat lifestyle. morbid obesity is a terrible problem, but what about being just "chubby"? or "fat"?
another thing i studied on med uni, and you can check it for yourself: there are two different kinds of fat. visceral fat and subcutaneous fat. to shorten my comment too, here is the difference: http://www.prevention.com/weight-loss/flat-belly-diet/flat-belly-diet-subcutaneous-and-visceral-belly-fat basically, the fat inside your belly is pro-diabetes, pro-bad cholesterol, pro-inflammatory. here you can see that subcutaneous fat have the opposite effect: anti-diabetes http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25605808 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18460332 and it aids several other patches of metabolism, as mentioned the fat metabolism itself, and if im not wrong it also prevents excessive inflammation, but ill have to search for concrete data later. (im getting sleepy hahah)
so this... "perverted" (:P) defending of appreciating different body types is very healthy. why? people are naturally different. no one has a body identical to the other. some are shorter, some are chubbier, some are more bony, they have different formats, different skin type (in color, patterns, texture, hair), each person has an unique body. learning to see beauty in every human instead of idolizing a specific set of traits is fundamental to each person learning how to love themselves for who they really are. no matter how much you try, if your body structure isnt equal to the media standards, you will never have a body considered "good", "acceptable". is it your fault? are you any less valuable because you dont fit a fucking pattern? thats not right. women are more blatantly victims of that, but men suffer with it, too. think about it... what really is perverted? learning to love and care for yourself and your body? or making people believe they are ugly because they werent born with a specific appearance?
its a cultural thing... the more i get into visual arts, the more i learn theres beauty in everything. in every person, every body, there is poetry.
do you think thats perverted?
you said it with a different argumentative intent, but ill use it to my favor, haha~
basically, those brands dont simply sell a bikini. they are selling a life style. a way of being. they say you need their bikini to be happy and fulfilled. but you also need their cosmetics. their lingeries. their formal clothing. their casual clothing. you need them to be successful and beautiful. also, look at this model. shes so beautiful. her hair is unrealistically flawless. her body is perfect, without a single scratch, irregularity, or fat. she is sensual. shes powerful. you want success? well then you have to be like her.
in other words, you have to transform yourself and become a completely different person in many cases lol.
so what if you dont want to? if you think these are bullshit? well thats great for you, be authentic. i dont think those unrealistic standards are any healthy. our current times are just further proving me right... outrageous level of depression, anxiety, anorexia, bulimia, general unhappiness, stress, disappointment with the career...
n o~ is it true that many women are sexist. most of them. they are taught to be sexist. just as men. however, the ones in the top of this power relation are men. they are the ones with most physical force. they are the ones that more freely exert their sexuality and will. no, they arent free, capitalism isnt freedom and sexism isnt freedom either, even for men who have privileges. they are forced to maintain an appearance of invulnerable, sexual potent man. ill ask my feminist friends for a good text about this in english to more concretely prove this point, ill edit this later, okay?
well this must have been kinda of a bomb... dont feel bad because of it, just being aware sexism exists and its super harmful for everyone is already a great thing! and its the most difficult step. im happy you read all this anyways. thank you.
as i said before, the shock ideal x reality can be very harmful. ppl often arent able to deal w reality because their expectations and desires are so unrealistic. this causes great suffering. why not cultivate a realistic form of appealing to our urges? a healthy form? well... off i go now. talk to you later! sorry, i could not not be long this time... i really hope, from the deepest part of my heart, that this was any useful to you who read all this. feel free to comment here or pm me.