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oh damn, this one is also long, and i quoted you three, so feel free to read it in parts! ill be waiting so no need to stress over it hahaha.
K@tsu said: So after read few long sentence, I wanna ask something..
Dear Debbie..after you looking the current condition of anime and manga. What are you gonna do? Are you gonna make your own manga/anime? or making art reallated with anime/mana theme in different style? or gonna spread idea/your thingking?
yes! my psychiatric condition isnt stable at all, but im struggling to win and create more. im slowly improving. and i do plan on creating mangas, not only dojins but also original content. and im interested on animations too. and making music. its a lot of interests, and a lot of people say that you have to focus on one thing, but ill handle my interests as i see fit, and i want all of them! hahaha im working on my first remix now, its a lot of trouble when youre starting, but i really want to do it. i dont want to make plain things. i want to make things that are deep and critical. that shows my reality, feelings, thoughts, and the miseries and wrongness of the world, and the wonders of life and humans. i like manga style, i might draw in different styles too, but i dont want to abandon manga, it means a lot to me. thank you for your interest, k@tsu <3
DarkRoseofHell said: So honestly speaking... if you don't like it then... don't bother. Instead of pushing for others to conform to your ideals, make your own example and have others follow. If you can't then you have no right to complain if you yourself are not doing anything.
i understand that view. not that i completely agree with it. indeed, creating things yourself is primal to transforming reality.
DarkRoseofHell said: Socially, I don't care about feminism. I only care about equality.
feminism is equality. feminism fights against gender roles, including the male ones. ofc, feminism is a huge movement made by the people who are inside it, so its not homogeneous. however the main premises of it are of equality. there are some girls who have been raped and suffered a lot because of the patriarchy that answer verbally on a hateful way, but they dont do any real harm to men. they just complain and accuse, but for real they just want to live their lives in peace, without fear of something horrible happening again. a little empathy and understanding that, despite also having to fit a conformity, males are in a position of privilege, is never too much.
DarkRoseofHell said: You DON'T need to help shield others from reality.
i dont understand where did i talked about shielding others from reality? i talked about the opposite, the excessive idealization that distorts peoples standards and perceptions of reality.
DarkRoseofHell said: Did you really ever look at what you're attempting to do and ask yourself, are you truly helping others or are you just trying to satisfy your own idealistic vision?
i understand what you said. and my belief is that no human being is 100% a thing. i believe that most people are trying both, even if subconsciously. me included. of course im trying to help people in the world and change this agonizing reality, but theres a part of me that burns with this ideal, inputting this command for me to follow. i believe that what fuels this idealism i have is the agony i see and feel in this world.
DarkRoseofHell said: I've seen these argument go around and around on the forum I mod. It's generally only a few posters vs a lot of others that just don't care or hate what is now denoted as 'social justice'. It's irritating, it's stupid, it's repetitive. I've never seen anyone properly answer the above questions properly.
oh, i wasnt aware you mod a forum, cool! hahaha, those peoples hearts burn passionately when the matters are inequality, for some reason~ im sad you think that social justice are these bad things. indeed, trying to build something just to be constantly smashed by no constructive reason isnt very encouraging. i hope i have answered well enough! feel free to point something out or anything, okay?
animefan01 said: You said it. Loli doesn't affect the mind and push people towards pedophilia. So why should seeing women objectified push one to think that they're nothing but sex objects?
pedophilia is a complicated matter. healthy individuals arent pedophiles, and the pedophiles themselves are extremely criticized in our society. however there is a tone of hypocrisy here: in our society, waxing the female body is necessary. body hair is seen as gross and turn-off. women are obsessively trying to look younger and younger, at every stage of their lives. one of the most popular (real) porn genres is that in which 13~15 yr old girls are tricked into losing their virginity. the sexualization of kids, especially girls, is more and more blunt, in entertainment, in ads, in the conduct of the population. an emblematic case happened here in brazil recently: a cooking program featuring only kids as participants had among them a girl called valentina, 12yr old. what happened? mass tweets of brazilian males commenting on the girls attractiveness, stating they would bang her, and other sexual comments. some even marked her twitter account on the tweets. a 12yr old girl. its considered pedophilia. but those guys thought it was okay. they didnt see themselves as "the damned pedophiles". pedophilia is a huge taboo, it is. however its slowly starting to permeate our culture without us realizing. we just realize its pedophilia when we come across a gross case of pedophilia, like when a 6yr old is sexually abused and this comes to light (instead of the child keeping quiet, as it happens frequently).
either way, what does it have to do with what we were first discussing, right? i said loli doesnt stimulate ppl to be pedophiles. so why would misogynistic material stimulate ppl to be misogynous?
thats because misogyny is much further infiltrated in society than pedophilia. make an experiment: try talking about pedophilia somewhere. most people will react with disgust, criticizing the violators as inhuman and sick. then try talking about sexism. what will happen is many people even denying it exists. some will say its overrated. some others will say that women want privileges. a few might criticize sexism and acknowledge its damage. the fact is that most people dont even realize sexism exists, or think its just a natural thing and harmless, its a correct thing. this is the level of infiltration misogyny achieved in society. it makes people think its normal, its not bad, its part of their natural living.
once i read an extremely interesting article that compares pedophilia to misogyny. in it, the main premise was that, in rape cases, society makes it much more about the sexuality of the victim than the act of the criminal. this insight was brilliant. notice that, the more a woman is sexually active and independent, the more she is blamed when she is a victim of sexual violence. on the other hand, when children are victims of sexual abuse, they are completely pitied and protected by society, as poor angels that suffered an atrocity. but why would the grown women be any less pure and to be pitied because they exert their sexuality in the way they see fit? the only conclusion you can achieve by following this logic is that women are to be blamed if they exert their sexuality following their desires. that this is wrong. that they cant have the sexual lives they want to, or they will be impure, dirty, and undeserving of any human treatment. after all, when a tragedy occurs to them, its not as bad, she had the blame, she "was asking for it". ofc, people choose to be victims of atrocious crimes, its really fun to be that. (not.) unfortunately, i didnt find this article using google. however, i did find a number of interesting things, that i think that will put it on a brilliant way that i couldnt. take a look at these quotes:
“We mute the realization of malevolence- which is too threatening to bear - by turning offenders into victims themselves and by describing their behavior as the result of forces beyond their control.” “Oddly then, in our search for meaning, we often assign victims too much blame for their assaults, and offenders too little. Our inconsistencies do not seem to trouble us, but they are truly puzzling. After all, if the offender is not to blame for his behavior, why would the victim be, no matter what she did our didn't do? Our views make sense, however, if you think that we are trying to reassure ourselves that we are not helpless and, that, in any case, no one is out to get us.” - Anna C. Salter, as seen here http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1353702-oddly-then-in-our-search-for-meaning-we-often-assign
“Young women are not putting themselves in danger. The people around them are doing the real damage. Who? you might wonder. The abstinence teacher who tells her students that they'll go to jail if they have premarital sex. The well-founded organization that tells girls on college campuses that they should be looking for a husband, not taking women's studies classes. The judge who rules against a rape survivor because she didn't meet whatever standard for a victim he had in mind. The legislator who pushes a bill to limit young women's access to abortion because he doesn't think they're smart enough to make their own decisions. These are the people who are making the world a worse place, and a more dangerous one, at that, for girls and young women. We're just doing our best to live in it.” - Jessica Valenti http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/6651409-young-women-are-not-putting-themselves-in-danger-the-people
“In the 1890s, when Freud was in the dawn of his career, he was struck by how many of his female patients were revealing childhood incest victimization to him. Freud concluded that child sexual abuse was one of the major causes of emotional disturbances in adult women and wrote a brilliant and humane paper called “The Aetiology of Hysteria.” However, rather than receiving acclaim from his colleagues for his ground-breaking insights, Freud met with scorn. He was ridiculed for believing that men of excellent reputation (most of his patients came from upstanding homes) could be perpetrators of incest. Within a few years, Freud buckled under this heavy pressure and recanted his conclusions. In their place he proposed the “Oedipus complex,” which became the foundation of modern psychology. According to this theory any young girl actually desires sexual contact with her father, because she wants to compete with her mother to be the most special person in his life. Freud used this construct to conclude that the episodes of incestuous abuse his clients had revealed to him had never taken place; they were simply fantasies of events the women had wished for when they were children and that the women had come to believe were real. This construct started a hundred-year history in the mental health field of blaming victims for the abuse perpetrated on them and outright discrediting of women’s and children’s reports of mistreatment by men.” - Lundy Bancroft http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1265678-in-the-1890s-when-freud-was-in-the-dawn-of
“I embrace the label of bad feminist because I am human. I am messy. I’m not trying to be an example. I am not trying to be perfect. I am not trying to say I have all the answers. I am not trying to say I’m right. I am just trying—trying to support what I believe in, trying to do some good in this world, trying to make some noise with my writing while also being myself.” - Roxane Gay
“I believe feminism is grounded in supporting the choices of women even if we wouldn’t make certain choices for ourselves.” “When feminism falls short of our expectations, we decide the problem is with feminism rather than with the flawed people who act in the name of the movement.” “I believe women not just in the United States but throughout the world deserve equality and freedom but know I am in no position to tell women of other cultures what that equality and freedom should look like.”
here is a list of articles that she has written to journals and magazines, all linked to the original texts: http://www.roxanegay.com/writing/
ok so back to the question, misogyny and sexism are deeply rooted within society, so when you create a content that reaffirm those roots, youre strengthening them further by coming and going from a place where you dont once exit this society and its way of seeing. youre contributing to naturalizing it further. after all, you see it every fucking day, in every fucking ambient, even in animes. normal. pedophilia isnt a "thing" as sexism, just as more bizarre and morbid content that arts can bear. pedophilia and, lets say, zoophilia/bestiality, arent epidemic as abusing of women. they are less naturalized behaviors that are present in a more punctual fashion. the mass of misogynistic content present in 3d and 2d porn reaffirm, set examples and further perpetuate the already deeply rooted system of exploitation of women and their sexuality. if you stop to read about 3d porn, youll be horrified with what the actresses live there.
still, pedophile fictional content still has potential to be problematic, perhaps less but it is present. what is urgently needed is a serious, open minded and concerned discussion about fictional content, 3d porn, sexuality and rape. we need to become more and more conscious about the wrongness and violence that exists. i personally enjoy loli/shota content, i think its enchanting, and i dont wish it to be censored or extinguished. but i recognize the importance of discussing it, of raising awareness in people, in not perpetuating ignorance and numbness in people. we need to live with our whole minds and body into it. not being afraid to look at what could be wrong and questioning it. of wanting to change. its not bad. it can be quite good. this is what us feminists believe, generally speaking. we dont want to live as society is living now, because we suffer with it, see injustice and wrongness with it, our lives and ourselves are largely damaged by it. isnt it natural? we are trying to raise awareness to those issues that are so damaging to so many.
animefan01 said: Then shouldn't almost all male western main characters being white, muscular and brown/black hair affect women's perception of me? Because I'd be pretty darn ugly and I know I'm not, I've had people compliment me on my looks before.
youre fortunate to be an emotionally smart and privileged person. unfortunately. not all people have this level of awareness about oneself you have. more sensitive and emotionally insecure people can lose their notion of self-image, or distort it, and this is a source of great suffering. please keep your eyes open for that.
animefan01 said: And what is a strong female character?
a common parameter used to measure how strong a female character is is how independent of men she is, how much she builds her own story. women are very often used on plots as anchor for male character development, and not as a complex character themselves with a relevant plot. ofc, theres much more involved into building a "strong" character, but this is a v relevant aspect.
animefan01 said: DON'T FUCKING HARASS ME WHEN I SAY YOU'RE NOT ATTRACTIVE TO ME
i completely agree. having your personal preference is completely different from body shaming. you dont need to, for an example, make a public post on facebook about how the fat girls are disgusting and ugly and should all die. this is different. do you understand? nobody is asking you to change your intimate preferences. we are just asking you to respect people, independent of how their bodies are.
whew, that was some journey here. hahaha lastly, this BEAUTIFUL quote, perhaps the most beautiful ive read today: “Viciousness is part of the world we live in, some of us choose to ignore it with the rationalisation of wanting only positivity to flow our way. How selfish we have become! That the pain of others has become a hindrance to the fulfilment of our positive selves.” by Aysha Taryam. http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7042810-viciousness-is-part-of-the-world-we-live-in-some
Debbie
oh damn, this one is also long, and i quoted you three, so feel free to read it in parts! ill be waiting so no need to stress over it hahaha.
yes! my psychiatric condition isnt stable at all, but im struggling to win and create more. im slowly improving. and i do plan on creating mangas, not only dojins but also original content. and im interested on animations too. and making music. its a lot of interests, and a lot of people say that you have to focus on one thing, but ill handle my interests as i see fit, and i want all of them! hahaha
im working on my first remix now, its a lot of trouble when youre starting, but i really want to do it.
i dont want to make plain things. i want to make things that are deep and critical. that shows my reality, feelings, thoughts, and the miseries and wrongness of the world, and the wonders of life and humans.
i like manga style, i might draw in different styles too, but i dont want to abandon manga, it means a lot to me.
thank you for your interest, k@tsu <3
i understand that view. not that i completely agree with it. indeed, creating things yourself is primal to transforming reality.
feminism is equality. feminism fights against gender roles, including the male ones. ofc, feminism is a huge movement made by the people who are inside it, so its not homogeneous. however the main premises of it are of equality. there are some girls who have been raped and suffered a lot because of the patriarchy that answer verbally on a hateful way, but they dont do any real harm to men. they just complain and accuse, but for real they just want to live their lives in peace, without fear of something horrible happening again. a little empathy and understanding that, despite also having to fit a conformity, males are in a position of privilege, is never too much.
i dont understand where did i talked about shielding others from reality?
i talked about the opposite, the excessive idealization that distorts peoples standards and perceptions of reality.
i understand what you said. and my belief is that no human being is 100% a thing. i believe that most people are trying both, even if subconsciously. me included. of course im trying to help people in the world and change this agonizing reality, but theres a part of me that burns with this ideal, inputting this command for me to follow. i believe that what fuels this idealism i have is the agony i see and feel in this world.
oh, i wasnt aware you mod a forum, cool! hahaha, those peoples hearts burn passionately when the matters are inequality, for some reason~
im sad you think that social justice are these bad things. indeed, trying to build something just to be constantly smashed by no constructive reason isnt very encouraging. i hope i have answered well enough! feel free to point something out or anything, okay?
pedophilia is a complicated matter. healthy individuals arent pedophiles, and the pedophiles themselves are extremely criticized in our society. however there is a tone of hypocrisy here: in our society, waxing the female body is necessary. body hair is seen as gross and turn-off. women are obsessively trying to look younger and younger, at every stage of their lives. one of the most popular (real) porn genres is that in which 13~15 yr old girls are tricked into losing their virginity. the sexualization of kids, especially girls, is more and more blunt, in entertainment, in ads, in the conduct of the population.
an emblematic case happened here in brazil recently: a cooking program featuring only kids as participants had among them a girl called valentina, 12yr old. what happened? mass tweets of brazilian males commenting on the girls attractiveness, stating they would bang her, and other sexual comments. some even marked her twitter account on the tweets.
a 12yr old girl.
its considered pedophilia.
but those guys thought it was okay.
they didnt see themselves as "the damned pedophiles".
pedophilia is a huge taboo, it is. however its slowly starting to permeate our culture without us realizing. we just realize its pedophilia when we come across a gross case of pedophilia, like when a 6yr old is sexually abused and this comes to light (instead of the child keeping quiet, as it happens frequently).
either way, what does it have to do with what we were first discussing, right? i said loli doesnt stimulate ppl to be pedophiles. so why would misogynistic material stimulate ppl to be misogynous?
thats because misogyny is much further infiltrated in society than pedophilia.
make an experiment: try talking about pedophilia somewhere. most people will react with disgust, criticizing the violators as inhuman and sick.
then try talking about sexism. what will happen is many people even denying it exists. some will say its overrated. some others will say that women want privileges. a few might criticize sexism and acknowledge its damage. the fact is that most people dont even realize sexism exists, or think its just a natural thing and harmless, its a correct thing. this is the level of infiltration misogyny achieved in society. it makes people think its normal, its not bad, its part of their natural living.
once i read an extremely interesting article that compares pedophilia to misogyny. in it, the main premise was that, in rape cases, society makes it much more about the sexuality of the victim than the act of the criminal. this insight was brilliant. notice that, the more a woman is sexually active and independent, the more she is blamed when she is a victim of sexual violence. on the other hand, when children are victims of sexual abuse, they are completely pitied and protected by society, as poor angels that suffered an atrocity. but why would the grown women be any less pure and to be pitied because they exert their sexuality in the way they see fit? the only conclusion you can achieve by following this logic is that women are to be blamed if they exert their sexuality following their desires. that this is wrong. that they cant have the sexual lives they want to, or they will be impure, dirty, and undeserving of any human treatment. after all, when a tragedy occurs to them, its not as bad, she had the blame, she "was asking for it". ofc, people choose to be victims of atrocious crimes, its really fun to be that. (not.)
unfortunately, i didnt find this article using google. however, i did find a number of interesting things, that i think that will put it on a brilliant way that i couldnt. take a look at these quotes:
“We mute the realization of malevolence- which is too threatening to bear - by turning offenders into victims themselves and by describing their behavior as the result of forces beyond their control.”
“Oddly then, in our search for meaning, we often assign victims too much blame for their assaults, and offenders too little. Our inconsistencies do not seem to trouble us, but they are truly puzzling. After all, if the offender is not to blame for his behavior, why would the victim be, no matter what she did our didn't do? Our views make sense, however, if you think that we are trying to reassure ourselves that we are not helpless and, that, in any case, no one is out to get us.” - Anna C. Salter, as seen here http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1353702-oddly-then-in-our-search-for-meaning-we-often-assign
“Can a woman not walk with her possessions down the street of a city?” - Brandon Sanderson http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/418799-can-a-woman-not-walk-with-her-possessions-down-the
“Young women are not putting themselves in danger. The people around them are doing the real damage. Who? you might wonder. The abstinence teacher who tells her students that they'll go to jail if they have premarital sex. The well-founded organization that tells girls on college campuses that they should be looking for a husband, not taking women's studies classes. The judge who rules against a rape survivor because she didn't meet whatever standard for a victim he had in mind. The legislator who pushes a bill to limit young women's access to abortion because he doesn't think they're smart enough to make their own decisions. These are the people who are making the world a worse place, and a more dangerous one, at that, for girls and young women. We're just doing our best to live in it.” - Jessica Valenti http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/6651409-young-women-are-not-putting-themselves-in-danger-the-people
“In the 1890s, when Freud was in the dawn of his career, he was struck by how many of his female patients were revealing childhood incest victimization to him. Freud concluded that child sexual abuse was one of the major causes of emotional disturbances in adult women and wrote a brilliant and humane paper called “The Aetiology of Hysteria.” However, rather than receiving acclaim from his colleagues for his ground-breaking insights, Freud met with scorn. He was ridiculed for believing that men of excellent reputation (most of his patients came from upstanding homes) could be perpetrators of incest.
Within a few years, Freud buckled under this heavy pressure and recanted his conclusions. In their place he proposed the “Oedipus complex,” which became the foundation of modern psychology. According to this theory any young girl actually desires sexual contact with her father, because she wants to compete with her mother to be the most special person in his life. Freud used this construct to conclude that the episodes of incestuous abuse his clients had revealed to him had never taken place; they were simply fantasies of events the women had wished for when they were children and that the women had come to believe were real. This construct started a hundred-year history in the mental health field of blaming victims for the abuse perpetrated on them and outright discrediting of women’s and children’s reports of mistreatment by men.” - Lundy Bancroft http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1265678-in-the-1890s-when-freud-was-in-the-dawn-of
“I embrace the label of bad feminist because I am human. I am messy. I’m not trying to be an example. I am not trying to be perfect. I am not trying to say I have all the answers. I am not trying to say I’m right. I am just trying—trying to support what I believe in, trying to do some good in this world, trying to make some noise with my writing while also being myself.” - Roxane Gay
here are a series of quotes from "Bad Feminist", one of Roxane Gay's most acclaimed books. http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/26563816-bad-feminist it's EXTREMELY interesting and elucidating!
examples: pls click me :)
“When feminism falls short of our expectations, we decide the problem is with feminism rather than with the flawed people who act in the name of the movement.”
“I believe women not just in the United States but throughout the world deserve equality and freedom but know I am in no position to tell women of other cultures what that equality and freedom should look like.”
here is a list of articles that she has written to journals and magazines, all linked to the original texts: http://www.roxanegay.com/writing/
ok so back to the question, misogyny and sexism are deeply rooted within society, so when you create a content that reaffirm those roots, youre strengthening them further by coming and going from a place where you dont once exit this society and its way of seeing. youre contributing to naturalizing it further. after all, you see it every fucking day, in every fucking ambient, even in animes. normal. pedophilia isnt a "thing" as sexism, just as more bizarre and morbid content that arts can bear. pedophilia and, lets say, zoophilia/bestiality, arent epidemic as abusing of women. they are less naturalized behaviors that are present in a more punctual fashion. the mass of misogynistic content present in 3d and 2d porn reaffirm, set examples and further perpetuate the already deeply rooted system of exploitation of women and their sexuality.
if you stop to read about 3d porn, youll be horrified with what the actresses live there.
still, pedophile fictional content still has potential to be problematic, perhaps less but it is present. what is urgently needed is a serious, open minded and concerned discussion about fictional content, 3d porn, sexuality and rape. we need to become more and more conscious about the wrongness and violence that exists. i personally enjoy loli/shota content, i think its enchanting, and i dont wish it to be censored or extinguished. but i recognize the importance of discussing it, of raising awareness in people, in not perpetuating ignorance and numbness in people. we need to live with our whole minds and body into it. not being afraid to look at what could be wrong and questioning it. of wanting to change. its not bad. it can be quite good. this is what us feminists believe, generally speaking. we dont want to live as society is living now, because we suffer with it, see injustice and wrongness with it, our lives and ourselves are largely damaged by it. isnt it natural? we are trying to raise awareness to those issues that are so damaging to so many.
youre fortunate to be an emotionally smart and privileged person. unfortunately. not all people have this level of awareness about oneself you have. more sensitive and emotionally insecure people can lose their notion of self-image, or distort it, and this is a source of great suffering. please keep your eyes open for that.
a common parameter used to measure how strong a female character is is how independent of men she is, how much she builds her own story. women are very often used on plots as anchor for male character development, and not as a complex character themselves with a relevant plot. ofc, theres much more involved into building a "strong" character, but this is a v relevant aspect.
i completely agree. having your personal preference is completely different from body shaming. you dont need to, for an example, make a public post on facebook about how the fat girls are disgusting and ugly and should all die. this is different. do you understand? nobody is asking you to change your intimate preferences. we are just asking you to respect people, independent of how their bodies are.
whew, that was some journey here. hahaha
lastly, this BEAUTIFUL quote, perhaps the most beautiful ive read today:
“Viciousness is part of the world we live in, some of us choose to ignore it with the rationalisation of wanting only positivity to flow our way. How selfish we have become! That the pain of others has become a hindrance to the fulfilment of our positive selves.”
by Aysha Taryam. http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7042810-viciousness-is-part-of-the-world-we-live-in-some